Caitlin Estes (00:00)
Welcome back to the Woven Well podcast. Now, regular listeners know that some of my absolute favorite episodes are the ones where I get to introduce you to some of the amazing ladies that I have the honor of working with at Woven Natural Fertility Care. There is something so special about hearing from someone else who was where you are today and hearing how they walked through it, how they got to the other side, or what was helpful for them along the way.
There's something really powerful about that realization that you are not alone and you're not the only one going through infertility or women's health issues or pregnancy loss or whatever it may be. So our goal is always to educate and empower women about their cycles and fertility while honoring that connection between fertility and faith. And I think that a huge avenue for doing that is through this kind of community and just making it abundantly clear that you don't have to face this alone and there are resources out there to help you. So this is just one reason why I'm excited to introduce you to another client today, Bettina. Bettina and I worked together last year at the request of her physician who was trained in NaproTechnology as they were working on addressing infertility and pregnancy loss. And so I'm really glad to get to talk with her and have her share a little bit of her story. So Bettina, welcome to the show.
Bettina Moran (01:19)
Hey, Caitlin.
Caitlin Estes (01:21)
Hey, glad to see you and excited for you to get to talk to our listeners. Can you help them get to know you just a little bit?
Bettina Moran (01:29)
Sure. My name's Bettina. I am now 37 and I'm a pharmacist. I work in healthcare. I work long days, staying on my feet 10, 11 hours a day. Fun times, some stressfulness involved in healthcare.
Caitlin Estes (01:49)
Thanks for sharing that. Yeah. So we got connected after you began working with a physician trained in NaproTechnology. So she wanted you to work with a Creighton instructor to be able to chart your cycles and partner with her in that way. But why did you decide to see someone with that specialty in the first place?
Bettina Moran (02:08)
So I've had two miscarriages before this one, and my OB had informed me that he thought he knew why I was having the miscarriages, but he couldn't confirm it until after the third miscarriage.
And so I talked with a friend of mine who has experienced infertility and she has already connected with a NaproTechnologist and she informed me that there was one within a two hour drive of me. So that's how I decided to seek a second opinion. So I just barely get my first opinion.
Caitlin Estes (02:45)
I don't like it either. I don't think that's acceptable at all to be told that. Unfortunately, that is the common approach these days because insurance won't cover anything until the third one.
Bettina Moran (02:57)
Yeah, but I think the flooding thing was that my insurance, think, would have covered it because I'd already met my deductible from the DNC from the second. They can't charge you after a certain amount.
Caitlin Estes (03:11)
Yeah, double reason why they still should have looked into it. The insurance was already covered, but more than that, you deserve to have it looked into that early on. Well, I'm so glad that you had a friend who knew about NaproTechnology, who agreed with you that it wasn't right for you to have to wait until a third loss to have it looked into. That is horrible. Now you mentioned you had two losses before this one. What do you mean by this one for the listeners who may not know?
Bettina Moran (03:39)
So this one is my third pregnancy and it's twins. It's one of each.
Caitlin Estes (03:44)
It's twins! One of each! I don't know if I knew that.
Bettina Moran (03:47)
My mom's a twin so that increases your odds by 50 percent.
Caitlin Estes (03:51)
Yes! Wow, that's so fun, so fun. And how far along are you right now?
Bettina Moran (03:58)
I'm 26 weeks right now.
Caitlin Estes (04:00)
There you go, beautiful.
So let's talk a little bit about what got you there through the course of this episode, but how was your experience different with your NaproTechnology physician than with your previous OBGYN that we were just talking about?
Bettina Moran (04:17)
So the NaProTechnologist she goes through everything. Even things that I wouldn't have even thought about, because modern medicine and pharmacy, it really doesn't walk you through the woman's cycle. It just kind of breezes over that a little bit.
Caitlin Estes (04:34)
Yeah.
Bettina Moran (04:35)
So I would tell her about my periods, heavy cramping, this, that, and she's like, that's an issue. I'm like, it is? She's like, you have PMS, that's an issue. I was like, I just thought that's a thing.
But we got a baseline of all my labs and she did the labs that my OBGYN had mentioned and we did discover I had a blood clot disorder. Baby Aspen corrected it. That's it. And I have a gene mutation that doesn't metabolize regular vitamins off the shelf. I just buy one, have it shipped. It's a dollar a day. It's fine. That's not too bad.
And what else? And then we did the baselines for my progesterone and low progesterone. And then she recommended me to meet with you so we could figure out like my hormones throughout the month and then partner with when my levels were at different parts of my cycle.
Caitlin Estes (05:35)
And think about how different that is already from all of your reproductive health experiences before that. mean, you you mentioned having painful periods, heavy bleeding, PMS, you know, I'm thinking of women who have a lot of clotting with their periods and a really heavy flow. And you're like, I just thought that was normal. You know, but you had that. How long do you think you'd had those symptoms?
Bettina Moran (06:02)
My whole life.
Caitlin Estes (06:03)
your whole life. Yeah.
Bettina Moran (06:05)
So as soon as I started periods, was, that's normal.
Caitlin Estes (06:09)
Right, and we think it's normal and it really should be our medical professionals, our medical team that's like, hmm, here's why that's not normal. Here's why you can expect more than that. And so I really love that from the very beginning, she really took the time to listen to you, to ask all of those questions, to hear about it and to address each one, you know, and say, this is not normal. You can expect better than this. You deserve better than this.
And then she went ahead and did all of that testing right at the beginning so that if you did conceive again, we would have more information ready to hopefully prevent another loss so you wouldn't experience that. And then even with all that initial information that's so much more than you had received elsewhere, she also wanted you to chart with Creighton so that you could time more labs and really see the hormonal side of things. So let's talk about Creighton for a second, because that's how you and I got connected, which
I love, and I'm so glad I had the opportunity to work with you. How do you feel like Creighton played a role in this? Like, why was Creighton an important part of the process for you?
Bettina Moran (07:18)
Well, because I it's the whole month that you're recognizing. I didn't even understand that different hormones would chart differently or look differently throughout my discharge, I guess is what we're going to go with. And then it just helped to understand what I'm going through. like, my progesterone's supposed to be surging right now. This is why.
I have the headaches, or this is why this is happening and it just makes it more aware. And I'll probably still chart after the pregnancy, just so I can know what's going on throughout my daily life. Maybe not quite as aggressively, but yeah.
Caitlin Estes (08:03)
Absolutely. Once you know that information, you really can't lose it. You always have it. It's always a part of your skill set now. So I love to hear that. And you're exactly right. A blood test is fantastic, but it gives you a snapshot. It's the one moment in time. Whereas when you're using the Creighton model system, it's giving you daily information so you can see the entire month, as you just mentioned.
I’m glad it's been so helpful for you. And so you mentioned some of the changes that you all did and to be able to carry and you know conceive and carry these little ones that you've got. Was there anything else that you feel like made the difference for you? Do you feel like it was primarily the change in vitamins and the baby aspirin or was there anything else that you feel like contributed to it?
Bettina Moran (08:55)
A couple other things. She mentioned stress to me. I'm like, well, I'm always stressed. But I didn't even think about certain things that could actually cause primitive stress. Because I did Jiu Jitsu. And so it's pure adrenaline that's going with me. And so adrenaline, your fight, or flight response, it's like, oh, this is a terrible time to try to conceive so I actually took three months off. So, okay it's hard for people to kind of find that line of how much to do and is it causing an issue is it's not is it not so I really appreciate that you said okay I'm going to give it three months that's how long it takes for an egg to be fully recruited and developed and mature and ovulate you know from the early early early stages so three months is a very intentional choice. I don't know if it was for you or not but and that's how long it took. Okay. So that's what I was wondering about. Like deciding ahead of time, hey, it's not that I'm saying I'm never going to do this again. It's just saying, I'm going to take some time off and see what difference it makes. And it sounds like it did contribute to it. So you really looked at the big picture, you and your doctor together. Not just are there medications I need to take, but let's look at my lifestyle. Let's look at things that I can do on my end to help this process.
Bettina Moran (10:16)
One thing she mentioned to us was cutting out plastics wherever you could. So drinking out of glass containers instead of plastic containers and things like that.
Caitlin Estes (10:28)
Yeah, just being aware of your toxic intake sort of thing and ways to reduce that over time. And I've seen some studies too that say that even just mild changes related to toxins and plastics, you notice a huge improvement fairly quickly. Like within a few months, you actually can see a difference in the toxic levels or plastic levels or whatever it was that they were looking at. So. Like I saying, you're approaching this from a holistic perspective. It is physical. You know, your treatment was physical. It was also mental in reducing that stress.
And we know that it's spiritual too, because for all of us, we are mind, body, and spirit altogether. That's how we're created as human beings. So I'd love to hear how you feel like God has been a part of this journey with you.
Bettina Moran (11:18)
Well, we decided that we were going to just try and if it was God's design, then it was going to happen. And I just didn't want to have any regrets. I was like, I'm going to try. If it doesn't happen, you know what? We still have a good life. We've adopted two kids already and we enjoy our traveling and everything. was like, I'll just live a good life. It'll be fine.
Caitlin Estes (11:38)
Yeah.
Bettina Moran (11:39)
So, just kind of letting it happen in God's time because it's not always our timing but yeah just kind of trying to have faith in that.
Caitlin Estes (11:49)
Yeah, and balancing both sides of it, knowing that you don't want to have regrets. You're willing to do what you need to do on your end to get answers and see if there is a reason why medically that conception hasn't happened while also honoring the fact that God is the creator of all life.
So it sounds like you were very intentional in balancing that saying, going in, I'm going to do everything that I can do. And yet it still may not happen and that's going to be okay. And God is still good, even if we don't conceive and have biological children.
Just having no regrets. Getting my best shot. And just having fun along the way is the point of it all.
Caitlin Estes (12:29)
Hmm. Yeah, that's hard for a lot of women to do. I will say that, for couples for women. That is tough. That is tough to do. Well, what?
Bettina Moran (12:38)
It’s definitely tough.
Caitlin Estes (12:40)
What do you feel like you would say to someone who may be in your situation in the beginning, who may find herself in a place where she doesn't have any answers, her she may be experiencing loss, she's not given a lot of hope. You know, what advice or encouragement would you offer to her?
Bettina Moran (12:58)
Well, I definitely try to encourage them to go to a holistic doctor, maybe a NaproTechnologist if they haven't. Because it's just a second opinion. try not to lose hope. It is hard not to, so that's the thing.
But just remember to have fun, that it's supposed to be fun. And that is a difficult one to do.
Caitlin Estes (13:23)
Mm-hmm. What do you feel like helped you hold on to hope or where did your hope come from during this journey? You said, you know, it's really hard not to lose hope. What did that look like for you?
Bettina Moran (13:34)
Just remembering that it might not happen, but I wasn't going to be without my answers because I'm, know older ladies that decided to do their career instead of try for children. And I see the regrets. I was like, there's not going to be any regrets with me.
Caitlin Estes (13:52)
Mm-hmm.
Bettina Moran (13:53)
So.
Caitlin Estes (13:54)
Yeah. I really love that your hope that you held on to wasn't in an end result.
You didn't know how it was going to end. So the hope wasn't, really, I'm going to hold on to hope that this is going to happen. The hope was in, I deserve answers and I deserve to understand how this is, what's going on and why this is happening. And I'm going to hold on to hope that I'm going to get that kind of care. And then whatever happens from there, I can, like you already said, I can trust God in what the end result is.
But the hope I'm holding onto is that kind of concrete consistency, not the hope of I'm holding on with all that I have to the hope of having a child because you don't know what's going to happen. I see so much stuff online and on social media and forums and discussion boards and all sorts of places where people are like, don't give up hope that you're going to have a baby.
That's not everyone's story. At some point, you know, they may say this is no longer God's plan for us or we feel a peace now about not trying to conceive anymore or something like that. So instead, having that hope be really in the fact that God is writing your story and you can trust Him with that is so much stronger than just saying the hope of having a biological child one day.
Well, Bettina, thank you so much for being on the show and for sharing a little bit of your story with us. I know it'll be an encouragement to those who listen.
Bettina Moran (15:26)
Well, thank you for having me.
Caitlin Estes (15:29)
Listeners, I'm really glad that you got to hear from Bettina, especially those who find themselves in their late 30s who have experienced recurrent pregnancy loss, who aren't getting a lot of support from their local OBGYN and think their time is running out. There's so many feel like they only have a shot at conceiving or growing their family biologically if they move over to IVF, especially if you get into your mid to late 30s, that's going to get more more pressured for many women. But instead, Bettina worked with a doctor who was focused on getting to the underlying cause of her losses, which also were addressing her painful periods, heavy flow, clotting, PMS, all these things that she'd lived with her whole life, and yet they aren't normal.
So she deserves that kind of care whether or not she conceived pregnancy, but we rejoice over the fact that she has, she and her husband, and that they are expecting twins. It's just a beautiful, beautiful story. And of course everyone's story is unique, like we were talking about there at the end. Working with us at Woven or with a Napro physician, it certainly does not guarantee the same outcome, but it does guarantee a very different experience than the one that you'd get at most local OBGYN offices that just say, you know, we don't know why these things happen, or we have to wait until you've had three losses. Even though you don't have a guaranteed outcome, like we were talking about, you deserve answers.
And so I'm going to make sure to put some of our most popular episodes on recurrent pregnancy loss and miscarriage in the show notes. And if you'd like to learn more about what causes them or what can be done, at least you'll have an easy place to start. And if you're ready to dive in and get answers yourself, then we would love to invite you to join us for our next introductory session, which is open to everyone. And you get to learn about the Creighton model system, just like Bettina did. Go to wovenfertility.com/appointments, or click on the link in the show notes. As always, thanks for listening as we continue to explore together what it means to be woven well.
