Ep. 193: Releasing rigidity & embracing curiosity for your cycles, fertility, and beautiful female body, with client, Kelley (Part 2)

Kelley, a Woven client and Mental Health Counselor, joined me today to talk about her journey working with Woven Natural Fertility Care to make sense of her cycles and the effects of PCOS, but the conversation took a truly meaningful turn as we talked about the significance of understanding our mental, physical, and spiritual creation and how that impacts how we understand our female design. It was so rich that we've broken the episode into two parts so you wouldn't miss out on it. We explore the role of faith, the impact of mental health, the daily effects of irregular cycles, and more in this episode. It's a must-listen! In today's episode, we focus more on the mental health affects and spiritual benefits of cycle charting.

NOTE: This episode is appropriate for all audiences.

HELPFUL RESOURCES:

Ep. 15: Dealing with fertility-focused anxiety, with Ashley Yeager, LCSW

Ep. 101: Medical trauma in fertility with Rebecca Henderson, LCSW

Fertility Trauma Resource from Woven 

Transcript

Caitlin (00:25)
Welcome back to the Wovenwell podcast. If you didn't catch last week's episode, it is actually pretty important for this week's. We did something that we rarely ever do, which is actually split the episode. So this is a part two from my early conversation with a client named Kelly. This is a great conversation. ⁓ She is a licensed clinical social worker. And so not only does she talk about her own journey, but how looking at the bigger picture, the mental health, spiritual health of a woman's life can really inform and impact her use of cycle charting and understanding her fertility and all related things. So if you have the time, go back to last week's episode first, listen to that 15 minute episode before you listen to this one. So enjoy the rest of the episode.

Caitlin Estes (01:20)
You also see things more from that mental perspective as well, like the mental health component, which I think is so important. And I've had other mental health professionals on the podcast over the years because we are not just a body. We are not just a mind. We are not just a spirit. We are all three in one. Thank you, Lord. And that comes up a lot ⁓ as I'm working with ladies, but I would imagine, as a mental health professional yourself, it's kind of informed, maybe your own approach to your body, but maybe like you notice things that other women may not, like the type of thinking that you're slipping into or your approach. I don't know, like I'm just curious from that professional perspective, like what have you noticed over time doing this that can kind of sneak in there for ladies?

Kelley (02:13)
Mm-hmm. You know, there are so many different ways that I could speak to that because, yeah, I'm such a big nerd about it. And so, you know, I could, there's like so many things that pop into my mind. But honestly, one of the biggest and one of the most simple is something that I often bring in with clients of mine and in my own life.

Caitlin Estes (02:18)
That's true. That's a big question.

Kelley (02:35)
that I do think relates to some of the stuff that we've been talking about, which is what I like to call beginner's mindset. we often have a tendency, and I do think, ⁓ especially sometimes with women, we have a tendency to label things very quickly and assign meaning to it. I had this negative thought, or I woke up and I was irritable today. I'm going to label that as good or bad.

And ⁓ coming back to this mindset of curiosity and reframing to instead of, this thing happened and it was good, or this thing happened and it was bad, that labeling can be so shaming and judgmental. Coming back to this space of isn't that interesting, right? I'm curious. I'm going to approach this like I'm learning it for the first time has been a really helpful thing that I also see with charting in cycles. Let's not label this as bad or broken.

Caitlin Estes (03:19)
Hmm.

Kelley (03:29)
Let's be curious about this. Always coming back to that root that God made our bodies with beauty and intention and purpose has been really helpful.

Caitlin Estes (03:39)
we've talked about the body. We've talked about the mind. I feel like I can't go without asking about the spirit, too, you know, because as a woman of faith who is walking through life with that filter, has that come up for you as you've been doing this work? Have you noticed?

Kelley (03:39)
Yeah.

Caitlin Estes (03:59)
as you've been charting or learning about your body that the Lord's been connecting with you in any particular way through this journey.

Kelley (04:06)
Absolutely, and I really think, What immediately comes to my mind when I hear you ask it is just the gift of, know, he has a plan, like God has a plan and a purpose for all of this, right? And, you know, my favorite verse is second Corinthians 12, nine through 10, right? My grace is sufficient for you for my powers made perfect in weakness.

And so I think there's really this beautiful invitation to lean on God's grace, to be sufficient and truly sufficient, right? More than enough in those moments where I'm wondering, and this goes way beyond cycles, but ⁓ where I'm wondering what's wrong, what's broken. And that even when I don't understand it,

Caitlin Estes (04:45)
Yes.

Kelley (04:52)
he's good and he's not, you know, out to harm me or hurt me. Like he's going to make all things beautiful. And really deeply believing that even when I don't have, you know, a cycle that looks how I want it to look. And I think even looking toward the future, being able to just trust him, that that's a truth that I can always come back to no matter what happens, no matter what struggles come up, has been something really sweet that I feel like has come up a lot in our conversations. And that, you know, that is a constant, right? We can always trust in God's goodness and that our bodies are His design. Always, no matter what else is happening. I hope that answers that well. Yeah.

Caitlin Estes (05:32)
Yes, yes it does and you know at some point you said of course this applies to way more than cycles but I love that you're bringing it to the cycles, you're bringing it to charting, you're bringing it to the female body because we think about how that verse in God's promises apply to these other areas of our lives but I think a lot of times our body

just feel excluded from that in some way, you know? It's like, yeah, it's true about our career and it's true about the man we're gonna marry or the life of singlehood or it's true about whether or not we'll have children and how many and it's true about, you know, where we're gonna live, you know, like these big things, but we don't think about it when it relates to like these moments in our lives that we're dealing with. Our sense of self as a woman, our...

Kelley (06:00)
Yes.

Caitlin Estes (06:24)
confidence with our periods and if we're ovulating or not and when that's happening like those feel either not important enough for God or you know like that seeps into our mindset and we lose out on knowing that God is just as present and just as faithful in this area of our lives within women's health and fertility as he is anything else and that's part of the gift.

Kelley (06:51)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I think about even doing work with trauma and anxiety and different things like that. There's just no escaping that those things are so related to, like we feel that pain in our bodies, right? We're so intricately connected to our bodies and that God can meet us in that space of healing. the body is so intertwined with all of it. And ⁓ of course it is, because it's incredible. And of course it's incredible, because it's God's design. And yeah, it's so sweet.

Caitlin Estes (07:27)
Yes.

And then we have these... we live in this mentality in our culture that because our cycles aren't important, we're just going to shut them down. You know, like let's just not worry about it. Let's not think about it. And we can do that. We can choose to do that. But I do think that there's some layer of this, what you're talking about right now, that gets missed out on because we lose connection to that.

You know, you're talking about this interconnectedness of mind, body, spirit, and how in your counseling work, the mental conversation and the trauma and the anxiety or whatever we're working through comes out in the body. But we think that what's going on in our body is not going to come out in our mind and in our spirit, our faith. Like these things are interconnected. And so we can try to cut it off completely and pretend that it's not going to have any sort of an impact, but it
always does, you know? Like it just, it's always gonna be there. And I think that there can be just this rich, fruitful depth to exploring it with the Lord, you know, with His faithfulness, with His presence, not on our own, not trying to figure it out, not trying to have all the answers, but that dependence that you were talking about earlier, like really leaning on the Lord and saying, hey, I don't know why this is the way it is. I don't know why you made me in the way I made, but I'm going to trust that you are good and you are faithful. So how does that change? Not just what I think about my cycle tracking. How does that change my relationship with you, Lord? You know, I just think there's so much there that could be there.

Kelley (09:13)
Yeah, there really, really is. Yeah, and I think honestly, the longer I've been doing this work as a therapist and just as a person on my own journey and my own therapy and just life, it's so often like real like healing and connection with the Lord is not, you know, becoming this perfect version of ourselves. ⁓ It's, you know,

Caitlin Estes (09:35)
Mm.

Kelley (09:37)
embracing and seeking the Lord right where we are. ⁓ And that has led to the most healing, right? Not checking off all the boxes, but about, you know, showing up as you are and knowing that God is with you in that. And then allowing him to transform in his timing. It's just never what we think it's going to look like. But I love hearing what you're talking about. He is so in it with us.

Caitlin Estes (09:42)
Yes.

Kelley (10:06)
I just, it's so sweet. Yeah.

Caitlin Estes (10:08)
And that's the journey. You know, we think about the destination, like where are we going here or like what even practically like what do I want my cycle to look like? What do I want this to be in the end? But when we shift our perspective from being what you were just saying, like having it all together or having the perfect cycle, the perfect chart, the whatever, whatever terms you want to use, changing that to relying on the Lord today, experiencing God's

Promises today like that is a richer life That's a more peaceful life. That's a more confident life because you're not waiting for this perfect ending It's happening now in the moment and it's good. It's beautiful

Kelley (10:42)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin Estes (10:55)
Thank you so much, Kelly. It's so fun to talk about these things with you and I appreciate you coming on, sharing a little bit of your story and your take. I have a feeling that maybe you'll be back at some point. Maybe we'll dive into some of those mental health things that you were hinting at earlier. Well, listeners, if you are doubting the goodness of your own body.

Kelley (11:09)
Yeah, I would love that.

Caitlin Estes (11:18)
If you find yourself frustrated or disappointed over its flaws or imperfections or you feel really separated from your body, I hope that you hear that you're not alone. You know, we all have those moments where we feel that bit that way. and your body is inherently good. It can be broken because guess what? All of our bodies are and it is still good. Maybe today's episode can be a helpful starting place for you to catch your own moments of getting into that good or bad mentality that Kelly was talking about and really embracing that love that you can have for yourself that comes from knowing the goodness of God. So we are so glad that you were able to listen and before you go, if this was worthwhile,

Would you mind leaving a quick review on whatever platform you're listening to right now? These are quick but powerful resources in getting episodes like these into the hands of other ladies. And if you've already done so, maybe you're just going to send this episode to a friend who maybe they understand why this resonated with you so much and maybe it'll resonate with them too. As always, thanks for listening as we continue to explore together what it means to be woven well.